Why Live Shows Suck

[Datatron]

This thread was inspired by Ed's comment about the M.I.A. show at Transit. Quick disclaimer: you guys know what I mean when I say "live shows". I'm not talking about going to a blues or jazz club, or a classical performance, or some kinda theater thing or something, or even an arena concert. Don't get technical on me, we've all been to "shows" before.

Let's be honest, Live Shows blow. If you still like them, it means you just haven't realized that you actually hate them yet. Why go to a Live Show? Everyone will tell you it's: A. Because they enjoy the sound of live music, and/or B. They like the atmosphere.

"I like live music" is such a cop-out. I'm not saying live music doesn't sound better, cause often it does, but don't feed me bullshit like you're there for the "live sound", especially for shows (like that M.I.A./Diplo show, for example) where the "live sound" is produced by spinning records and beating on samplers and drum machines. It's the same sound as on the record, just amplified to offensive levels.

But I don't wanna get into all that stuff like "You're just here to be trendy... it's not even about the music..." blah blah blah pretentious "I know everything" dribble, cause really that's often not the case, and in this case that's really not the point.

Let's stick to the facts... the "I like the atmosphere" part:

1. People are there. People, in general, really suck. And when you go to see a band you really love, and see all the other kinds of people that really love them too, you can't help but start to feel at least a little let down.

2. LOTS of people are there. Shows (especially in the big cities) are crowded as all hell = they're hot and sweaty as hell = they smell awful = you can't move even the slightest amount = YOU smell awful because you constantly have 5 people rubbing their nastiness all over your skin and clothes. Not that they can help it, they can't move either, and you're rubbing your nastiness all over them too. Oh, and if you're not a smoker, have fun breathing.

3. You gotta stand in the same hot and nasty spot for hours before the band you came to see even comes on. Standing is awful. Its worse for me cause I epitomize laziness and lethargia, but none of you can honestly tell me you enjoy standing for that long. And it's not like you can sit. And it's not like you can even leave without making serious serious effort.

4. When the band comes on, you've been standing in your hot sticky place for so long that their awesome (if you're really lucky... usually very boring) entrance provides only momentary excitement before you start to realize that you kinda can't wait until they're done playing so you can get the hell out of there.

5. There's a 50% chance the band will sound awful. If you go see someone you think is awesome and they suck live, they're gonna instantly get knocked down on your list, regardless of how good you think their record is. You'll listen to the record less and less and eventually stop, only to come back to it on random occasions for a quick listen. Not that it wouldn't happen like that anyway, but the poor live performance is certain to speed up the process.

6. You have to pay $ for this crowded, uncomfortable, annoying chance to see all the other fans you wish you never met and a fairly high probability of liking the band less. The album is probably cheaper, and you can listen to it whenever you want, with whomever you want, and it will always sound as good as the last time you played it. At least at the live show you get to affirm that the band members are actually real people, and you get to see what the band members look like in real life, which is also often a huge let down.

I won't even get into the having to find transportation there/back and parking and all that good stuff. Live shows suck, I'll stay home.

[fluck]

datatron, you sound like a true cynic.

[Ed Blammo]

AWESOME!!! just awesome. Datatron is years ahead of everyone. Yeah he might sound like a stick in the mud downer bum, but thats just because everybody is afraid to admit that he's right, live shows are shit unless you're the performer, its you and 10 of your friends, you're sitting in a theater, or its some mind bending colossal performance that makes you want to start or quit making music.

Here's some of my favorite memories

1. Family Values Tour '99 Limp Bizkit, Run DMC, Staind

We couldn't even see the motherfucking STAGE cause we were in the top row of the stadium. Not to mention we had to drive 3 hours in Matt McHale's broke ass van that was covered in dog hair and had moldy half eaten Burger King under the seats. Fred Durst (cool dood my ass) told the promoters to fuck off cause they wouldn't let anyone on the floor, so you know Limp Bizkit was definitely playing their best.

2. Musikfest for the last 10 years.

First of all, anyone from Bethlehem knows that Musikfest is the wackest shit on the planet. And, don't get me wrong, when I was a kid, Musikfest was the shit. Me and Nick and my parents would go to Kinderplatz and made those badass arts and crafts out of paper and markers and shit and there were clowns with balloons and all that good stuff, but since middle school, Musikfest has been nothing but gay. Let's walk up and down main street and pretend to be nice to all the people from school that we couldn't wait to get away from for summer vacation. Or how about we get drunk and try to get some fat ugly bitch's phone number, or maybe we'll start a fight and our dad will join in and catch an executive beat down by the cops (oops). I'm not even going to get into the fact that there hasn't been one good band there in the last 6 years.

3. Club Carrigans, Whitehall, PA. Problem Addict

All the PA Hardcore fools stand up! After my mom dropped us off, my girlfriend went behind the building and got high with some cool doods. Then the Nazi hate band came on and then I punched a girl that looked like Danny De Vito from Batman Returns in the head cause she stepped to me and got my hand caught in her nappy rats nest hair. I think Tim got kicked in the stomach too.

4. First Unitarian Church (AKA most over-rated shithole in Philly) RJD2, Diverse, Automato.

First let me say that Automato tore the fucking roof off. Coolest shit in the world. Too bad all the Def Jukies with their full volcom gear and aesop rock trucker hats were there to hear them. Then Diverse came on (who made one of my favorite albums ever) and was dull as shit. Don't get me wrong, Diverse was a cool dude, and his record is off the bike rack, but c'mon man, step the live game up a notch. Meanwhile some greasy ass fellow somehow made his way between me and my girlfriend and I got to watch as he attempted to "get busy on her." Luckily he got pushed out of the way by some righteous underground hip-hop fan before I stuffed my 10 pounds of show flyers that i was force fed at the door down his throat. THEN RJD2 came on. very cool....for the first 3 hours. Then it was like "Solid, lets get the fuck out of here now. Wrap it up RJ.

5. (last one) TRANSIT the infamous MIA/Diplo/Wack beatboxer show.

Got there early to find parking (mistake) Had to stand in the parking lot and get harassed by bums while we watched all the UGLY hipster bitches parade their horrible haircuts and fake as fuck clothes back and forth. Watched Diplo DJ (mostly records that I own) for like 3 hours while some kid doing all the white boy dance moves, elbowing me, grinding me, and talking to his ugly, probably bisexual friend about what ivy league schools they hot accepted to. Almost had a heat stroke, and probably did get cancer from second hand smoke. We left early only to find a modest parking ticket on our car which we thought was in a safe spot.

yeah, live shows are great, and to think I paid money for this shit.

Sure i could talk about the awesome shows I've been to (Gorillaz, TV On The Radio (the first time) Thunderchief) but no one wants to hear that.

Fuck live shows unless you know the band and you have a chair.

Ed Blammo

[barnhouseeffect]

i don't know, i don't buy it. for all the gay shit that happens at shows (i'm not going to deny that stuff does happen) i've had more goood experiences than bad, and that makes it worth it to me. maybe i haven't been to enough shows, but for now i enjoy the experience of getting to see your favorite bands playing your favorite songs right in front of you, no matter what dumb shit goes on around it.

[Datatron]

barnhouseeffect said:

i don't know, i don't buy it. for all the gay shit that happens at shows (i'm not going to deny that stuff does happen) i've had more goood experiences than bad, and that makes it worth it to me. maybe i haven't been to enough shows, but for now i enjoy the experience of getting to see your favorite bands playing your favorite songs right in front of you, no matter what dumb shit goes on around it.

Indeed, much like you and Dan now, that's a position similar to my own when I was about to head off to Boston for my first year of college. Freshman year (at least the first half) for you guys will no doubt be spent going to shows at least every other weekend (sometimes many time a week), since you're both into music. Don't feel bad, we all did it. It's important to confirm your status around campus of a lover of music and a connoisseur live music shows, of course. I'm sure it will be even worse for Dan, since he'll be heading off to Berklee, where... well, suffice it to say, "where Berklee kids go". (Don't necessarily a that in a bad way, Dan, as it's a great music school after all.)

Maybe you really haven't been to enough shows. I have faith that you'll realize it's in fact "not worth it at all" after you agree to go to a bunch of shows that you're not even interested in, just for the sake of going out and doing cool things with your college life. How many "favorite bands" do you have that are worth the trouble of seeing live? Seriously, all the live shows are more or less the same, even for your favorite bands.

At least try to only go to shows you really wanna see if you want to try to keep the dream of "live shows are sweet" alive a little longer. Once it's so easy to go to shows, don't start going just for the sake of going, and maybe you can get through all of college still enjoying all the sacrifices you make to see your favorite band playing your favorite songs right in front of you. If you can keep convincing yourself it's worth it, more power to you I guess...

I'm still staying home. And yes, Dan, I am a true cynic when it comes to going to very hot sticky uncomfortable places for a few hours for no real valid reason. Actually I'm a true cynic about a lot of things... but what can I say, that's me haha.

[Ed Blammo]

its all about weight the pros and cons.

pros:
live music by your favorite artist
spontaneos live magic jam shit blah blah blah
meet the artist
get a cool shirt

cons:
$$$
standing for an extended period of time
smoking, heat, sweat et. al.
always getting stuck next to someone annoying
hearing all the hipster talk
spontaneos live magic jam shit blah blah blah
listening to a sampler/computer
watching someone dj (why the fuck don't people dance?)
band sounds dull, off, shitty, boring
parking, travel
crap venue, over booking, terrible sound

so if the pros outweigh the cons, then a live show is a beautiful thing, but ever since indie rock started, it seems like the cons dominate. And not just indie rock shows either. Hip-hop, dance, whatever. The indie rock crowd shows up and makes everything mediocre, casue you know, thats their thing i guess. i don't wanna get all nostalgic on everybody, but c'mon. You think anybody went to see Sabbath and just stood there? hell no. people came ready to rock. What about the bronx in the early 80's? you think motherfuckers were just standing there to see and be seen? hell no. fools were getting down. Same goes for chicago in the 80's. househeads would party till the next afternoon. So, anybody going to a show, let me know when shit starts popping off again. till then, I'll be in Aaron's basment.


yeah, i'm serious. dead serious.

[fluck]

for me it all comes down to the pure energy of the music being played for you in the present, by the people that played it on the records you dragged a needle over a thousand times. the sweatshop-like conditions of the show only make it more real, after all, you're experiencing more than just your favourite bands playing your favourite songs. i can't even begin to let a 3 hour drive there and back or the $6 cans of redbull ruin that. i go to a lot of shows, and if i don't have a good time at one i'm not going to just denounce live music like that. music, essentially, is supposed to be live, isn't it? i went to live 8 and stood in the same spot without moving for twelve hours (excluding the cause) to see my man stevie wonder, even if he played for 20 minutes, it was well worth it.

that's just the way i look at it.

[Datatron]

Hell yeah dude:





Way more enjoyable than live shows.

No worries Fluck. I'm glad you can find a way to enjoy those dismal circumstances.

[Ed Blammo]

the real question is...is the show worth it EVEN THOUGH you drove 3 hours and stood for another 3, or is it worth is BECAUSE you drove 3 hours and stood for another 3?

We're not saying stop going, we're just saying why it sucks so bad.

[CANILIVE]

Data and Blammo are obviously the more knowledgeable of the two in this discussion. There are real music heads "like Data and Blammo" then there are scenesters that listen and do whats cool in myspce or xanga that week "like Barnhouse and Fluck". My advice to you two is learn to respect the more knowledgeable, and stop being so emo.



Much respect for data and blammo.
Side note: emo kids need to take showers.

[Datatron]

Hey nick, with images it's usually a good Idea to download them then re-host them yourself on something like tinypic.com.

otherwise you'll get messages like the one above from people who don't like you linking to their images.

[barnhouseeffect]

canilive said:

Data and Blammo are obviously the more knowledgeable of the two in this discussion. There are real music heads "like Data and Blammo" then there are scenesters that listen and do whats cool in myspce or xanga that week "like Barnhouse and Fluck". My advice to you two is learn to respect the more knowledgeable, and stop being so emo.



Much respect for data and blammo.
Side note: emo kids need to take showers.

there's a difference between not respecting someone and disagreeing with them. i'm not going to stop liking shows because ed and datatron know more about music than i do. my opinion isn't influenced by "real music heads", and it isn't influenced by scenesters, myspace, or xanga (what the fuck?)

[Ed Blammo]

ok. everybody in this thread needs to chill. It was just supposed to be an opinion thing about live shows and how they suck or don't. If you guys wanna offer up opinions, thats cool, and if you wanna talk about the shitty shows you've been to (or the good ones if need be) we're all for it. This forum isn't about talking shit on each other (unless it's funny). You guys know what I'm talking about, and I have no problem locking this thread if you keep this shit up. (this means you too nick)

[fluck]

holler barnhouse. i doubt i'm into ethiopian jazz funk from 1969-72 from going onto myspace or xanga. 'canilive'. talk about being emo.

[Datatron]

canilive said:

Data and Blammo are obviously the more knowledgeable of the two in this discussion. There are real music heads "like Data and Blammo" then there are scenesters that listen and do whats cool in myspce or xanga that week "like Barnhouse and Fluck". My advice to you two is learn to respect the more knowledgeable, and stop being so emo.

In this case I don't really think knowing more about music matters. And I'm not so sure I really do know more about music than those two anyway... except maybe if you're talking about licensing, copyright law, artist contracts, or royalty collection/distribution, but I don't think you're talking about that. I appreciate the vote of confidence though.

Fluck, I think you might be confusing the "pure energy of the music" with the simple fact that it's really loud. Live show goers all get swept into the same kind of bogus euphoria, like they're seeing something increadible take place when they're really not. They start playing that first line and some kids start going nuts, and then everyone starts thinking "oh my god, they're right... THIS IS AMAZING", and then everyone starts going crazy like something earth shattering is going on. It's like that placebo effect experiment where they get all the highschool kids drunk off non-alcoholic beer...

And why is hearing your favorite band under "sweathshop like conditions" more real? Just cause you're surrounded by hundreds of other fanboys? Perhaps it would be more real if you were the only one there, but otherwise it's just hearing songs you like under terrible conditions when you could be hearing them under perfectly comfortable conditions.

Like Ed said, we're not saying stop going, you can do whatever you want. I think you're kidding yourself though, telling yourself what an amazing experience it is.